I want to love Carole & Tuesday so bad, but I just don’t. Does that make me a terrible person?
OP: “Kiss Me” by Carole & Tuesday (Nai Br.XX & Celeina Ann)
Carole & Tuesday is shaping up to be the toughest nut of the season (and in a season with an Ikuhara show, that’s saying a lot). There are so many things about this series that are clearly special – starting with the OP, which is a visual feast of a very high order. Whether he’s playing a largely hands-off role or not, I think it’s almost impossible for a Watanabe Shinichirou series not to have elements of exquisite genius as part of the mix. He’s anime royalty for a reason, and it’s not hard to see it with Carole & Tuesday.
But something just isn’t right here, at least for me. There are two main areas of dissonance, the first being the recurring sense that this is all coming too easily for Watanabe. Unfair? Almost certainly, and undeniably subjective. But it just doesn’t feel as if he’s challenging himself very much with C & T. I get the sense that he’s picked the path of least resistance, which he has every right to do, but when you’re only going to do a series every four or five years I, as a fan, have the right to pine for something more ambitious.
It’s like the difference between Kubrick and Spielberg – the latter came out with pretty much a movie a year in his prime, so if he wanted to sleepwalk through The Lost World, no big deal. But Kubrick couldn’t afford to waste a precious moment of screen time because he averaged seven or eight years between films – and fortunately, he never did. Not all of Kubrick’s films were artistically successful (though most were, and some among the greatest ever made) but they were always pushing boundaries, both his and those of the audience. If I waited 8 years for a Kubrick film and he gave me Lost World, I’d be pretty damn disappointed.
The other problem is, I suspect, the more profound and likely persistent one. Frankly, Carole & Tuesday rings false to me. It feels very manufactured, very Hallmark – like there’s a message agenda and it’s going to be unmissable for even the most inattentive audience members. It’s only two episodes of two cours, certainly too early to know for sure, but I feel as if Im being talked down to just a bit here, and my emotions manipulated. The whole enterprise just feels marketing-driven, as if designed to appeal to a woke (and international) audience.
I realize there’s no way to say that without sounding like some kind of beret-wearing anime elitist, yearning for avante garde and niche works to feed my Jones, but I call BS on that. I don’t even own a beret and I love a good mainstream anime as much as the next man – a good deal more than most, I suspect. But so far Carole & Tuesday isn’t stirring anything in me at all – not the characters, not the premise, and not the music. That was better this week but still left me fairly indifferent, though that may just be a matter of taste. I keep finding myself thinking how I’d much rather hear the songs the episodes are named after than the one in the episode.
With all that said, there’s still those moments. That OP. The funeral scene where the camera follows the priest and the butterfly, and his facial expressions. The background art, generally speaking. And they haven’t made an anime yet that couldn’t be improved by the addition of Irino Miyu, who joins the cast as Roddy. He’s the recording engineer for a blowhard named DJ Ertegun (Miyano Mamoru, once more playing very much to type) – who is surely named after Ahmet Ertegun, a sadly little-known true hero of American music whose name being dropped here is a huge point in this series’ favor for me. It’s Roddy’s uploading of a video of Carole and Tuesday after they crash the “Martian Immigrants Memorial Hall” that sets the wheels in motion for their partnership with Gus, and presumably the rest of the plot too.
I sincerely, fervently hope I wind up being proven wrong about all the things that grate on me with this show. Because believe me, when I said I wanted to love it I was in no way joking or exaggerating – any Watanabe series I don’t love feels like a huge opportunity gone a-begging. That this has 24 episodes to play with is what gives me some hope, but also no small amount of trepidation, because if my initial impressions don’t prove misplaced that’s an awfully long time for all that grating to become intolerable…
Disgruntled Penguin
April 19, 2019 at 1:48 amI have not seen this episode, but I did take some time to revisit past Watanabe works, the premieres of each series in particular, and Carole and Tuesday just seems “sterile” in comparison to its counterparts.
From Bebop to Sakamichi no Apollon (we’ll pretend Zankyou no Terror doesnt exist for now), we see Watanabe deliver flair and class with ease, and each of these first episodes leave you with a clear impression of what’s to come – Bebop with the dramatic firefight prologue into Tank! as the opening; the hip-hop influence in Champloo and its sublime opening; the self-aware Dandy turning the dial to 11 by the end of the episode; Kaoru dropping his guard while Sen goes ham on the drums, also that incredible opening – I’ve seen them all before, but they’re all just as impressive and outstanding as I recall them to be.
This? Worryingly bland. Nothing to fix my eyes ans thoughts on. As you’ve mentioned we have a whole season ahead of us for things to improve, but Watanabe not getting things right at the startingly is uncharacteristic of him, and I can’t shake this dread that I’m feeling right now, even if it does seem awfully pessimistic and premature.
(I know I’m still speaking about last week’s episode, but that plug for Instagram at the end of the episode was unnerving. Would Watanabe and co. really stoop down to product placement in their series? Has this happened before without my knowledge?)
Blue
April 19, 2019 at 5:18 amReading something like this makes me appreciate the benefits of being very casual about watching anime. I still check out most shows each season but since I’m not a die hard fan, every new anime starts from a blank slate and I can simply enjoy those that end up working for me and drop those that don’t. I very rarely get on hype trains and almost never find myself having to evaluate show runners based on my preconceptions as opposed to what they do in the show I’m watching. Though had I known this was by the Cowboy Bebop/Samurai Champloo guy, I might have been plesantly surprised, because the super coolness everyone was on about with those shows was whoopty doo for me, but this one looks good to me so far, doesn’t feel as pretentious. I’m not saying those weren’t well made shows, but I didn’t enjoy them all that much, their soundtracks beat the animes for me.
And, not very meta of you to say that the show feels “manufactured” and not tie this into the AI guy and his ideas about how to create a hit. I’m positive the director is more then aware of this point.
RavenousRaven
April 19, 2019 at 7:05 amThat applies to most things you don’t love or have a passion about.
Blue
April 19, 2019 at 7:59 amWhat do you mean by “that”? Are you saying it’s not possible to love anime without bringing a load of baggage into each new show you watch? If I were an anime reviewer I’d probably have to do it, but since I’m not I find I’m better off when I don’t have any specific expectations about new shows. I don’t have a problem if other people research shows beforehand and make constant comparisons, I’m talking about what works best for me.
RavenousRaven
April 19, 2019 at 1:45 pmIt is perfectly fine to watch something without “bringing” in baggage, but is it wrong to expect more? As far as loving anime, fans will definitely have expectations(at least for adaptations). In this case, I haven’t watched Carole and Tuesday(also it is an original) so I can’t give any opinion about it. Do you tend to go into the seasons blind or do you usually have some knowledge about the show through reading the source?
Also, sorry if that comment came off a bit snarky.
Blue
April 19, 2019 at 5:20 pmI was not offended by what you said, I just don’t see being a fan and loving anime as being the same thing. Fans tend to have very strong biases and these can get in the way of enjoyment. As for your question, I go into anime blind most of the time, at most I skim some preview posts. I don’t read that much manga and LN sources, except maybe after I’ve seen an anime I’ve liked.
Guardian Enzo
April 19, 2019 at 7:23 amThe AI thing is an interesting take. But the problem is the way Watanabe is using AI does itself feel very artificial and calculated.
Simone
April 19, 2019 at 5:33 amWell, it’s certainly ironic that for being a show about two girls breaking the monopoly of AI-manufactured music, this might as well be the first AI-manufactured anime – amazingly competent and hitting all the right keys, but in such a by-the-numbers way it just seems a distillate of tropes.
Personally, I’m fine with it. I guess yours is the curse of the fan. I liked most of Watanabe’s stuff I watched well enough, but I’m not a hardcore fan who will feel disappointed if C&T isn’t groundbreaking. Right now it obviously is not, but it’s entertaining, pretty, and pleasant to watch, so I’ll still take it for what it is.
brigid001
April 19, 2019 at 6:55 amI agree, I’m actually really enjoying this so far! Pretty, and pleasant to watch is a pretty apt description and it’s still early days so there’s still plenty of room for things to grow. The only fault I would say at the moment is with the music, which comparing against his other series would be a few notches below. But well, there’s still time for that to grow too, I’m happy with the pace of things so far and it’s nice to have a show about two girls bonding over their love of music and working towards their goal together.
Guardian Enzo
April 19, 2019 at 7:30 amI disagree with your take that my problem is mostly a Watanabe one. I’m not a huge fan in truth – I actually think Bebop is overrated (which seems like a minority view to say the least), Sakamichi crashes big time, and Zankyou is a disaster. Even Dandy is pretty inconsistent and only really soars in the second season. I do appreciate Watanabe’s talent and want more of it, but I’m not anywhere near his biggest fan.
The much bigger issue here is the falseness and plasticity. This show comes off as patronizing and manipulative so far and that would be true no matter who was directing it.
Blue
April 19, 2019 at 8:16 amHa, I for one defintely agree with you that Bebop is overrated (but the music part is great!). But I don’t see what it so false and especially “patronizing” about C&T. If you don’t like it for some reason that’s fine, but you’re talking almost like the director is engaged in a conspiracy to sucker the viewers, lol.
Guardian Enzo
April 19, 2019 at 8:36 amWell, to an extent, that’s the aim of every director in every show, isn’t it?
I’m not sure where the disconnect is here. Those are the reasons why I don’t like it (that much) so far – it’s not “some reason”. I find it saccharine and emotionally manipulative. That can still change once we get to know the characters better, especially if the narrative injects a bit more subtlety at the expense of the greeting card messaging. I fervently hope that happens.
Blue
April 19, 2019 at 9:33 amLol, Enzo now you’re abusing the fact that I opted not to say the same thing about all anime creators at the end of my post. Only I was going to add that if everyone does it, in what way if C&T special so that it gets all these negative lables but some other shows, like maybe Tsuki ga Kirei which is definitely also emotionally manipulative, you don’t say these things about at all. There’s no disconnect really, because I’m not talking about the chicken and egg question of disliking for reasons or rationalizing reasons for dislike. I’m talking comparatively (lol ironic given what I said earlier) I don’t see why this kind of fine comb criticism of this one if it’s not because of expectations.
Guardian Enzo
April 19, 2019 at 12:04 pmWell, we’ll just have to disagree about what I’m thinking – what you say I am and what I actually am.
And FTR I didn’t say those things about TgK because I don’t think they apply to it. For me that series was way more genuine and less manipulative than C & T (so far).
Blue
April 19, 2019 at 5:10 pmLol, come on now, you can’t make a point that every director tries to manipulate emotions and immediately turn around and deny this being the case in TgK just because you loved that one.
I don’t know what you’re actually thinking but I can read what you’re actually writing. If someone other than yourself said “I want to love Carole & Tuesday so bad, but I just don’t. Does that make me a terrible person?”, wouldn’t you interpret this as that person having fannish preconceptions about the show or at the very least feeling some pressure to be on the side of an acclaimed director and his apparent majority of fans? It’s natural for a reviewer to use a bunch of fancy words to explain their conflicted feelings, but that doesn’t mean each of these adjectives represents an objective fact, you say yourself you’re being “undeniably subjective”. Claiming that your REASONS are so grand that they can’t be summed up as “some reason” seems more patronizing to me than anything I saw in C&T.
Then you say things like “I, as a fan, have the right to pine for something more ambitious” from Watanabe and “any Watanabe series I don’t love feels like a huge opportunity gone a-begging”, and after in the comments deny you have a fan problem with Watanabe. Having “a message agenda” and being “marketing-driven” seem like two contradictory concepts to me, and frankly I don’t see how the latter could be “patronizing” of all things. Maybe you should get your story straight before you start grumbling about people misinterpreting your thinking.
And FTR, saying you “love a good mainstream anime as much as the next man – a good deal more than most” is a pretty funny way to deny the endearing elitism many of us come here for. “A good deal more than most” is like the definition of an elitist, lol.
Guardian Enzo
April 19, 2019 at 6:16 pmI see no contradiction in anything I wrote – all of the implications you’re imparting are coming from your end, not mine. I especially sigh resignedly at the argument that thinking one show is better than the other implies some kind of double standard on the part of the viewer, because it’s one I’ve seen a lot over the last 9 years when my view of a series disagrees with someone else’s. But it’s clear neither one of us is going to convince the other, so it is what it is.
Simone
April 19, 2019 at 8:49 am“This show comes off as patronizing and manipulative so far and that would be true no matter who was directing it.”
I suppose I don’t feel manipulated because I don’t feel like this show is supposed to give me any great emotions at all. It’s all so vanilla I’m not feeling it in that sense, but I like the artistry of it, and I enjoy the music well enough, though it’s not exactly my genre.
As for Watanabe… it’s interesting how he seems to have just gotten less brilliant and groundbreaking with time. I haven’t watched all of Bebop, but my favourite shows of his probably remain Samurai Champloo and Macross Plus. Which interestingly enough was a far more stimulating take on exactly this same theme, with an AI musician and a human singer who powered it behind the scenes (but also, test pilots and mechas).
So yeah, I know the feeling you describe, I just don’t get it from C&T because honestly I don’t think it’s even trying that hard to be inspirational or melodramatic or anything. I really appreciate it mainly at an aesthetic level.
maxttien
April 19, 2019 at 11:20 amBebop not overrated.
watching more, more interesting. Bebop not like macross plus or champloo. it’s excellent not only music.
Okuni
April 19, 2019 at 9:16 amFirst, let me get the klutz-at-cleaning thing out. I’m sick of seeing ‘having a good heart and wanting to be useful’ translate into ‘using too much soap and having things fall over’. This idea ran the last gauntlet in ‘Hinamatsuri’, and had all the jokes wrung out of it. It’s stupid, and has NO basis, and is an unimaginative way to say ‘never lifted a hand for herself’. Ok, now on to that apartment – it’s like the huge, cute NYC apartments in ‘Friends’. I don’t see a kid, scrounging, bartering, busking, and taking gig-economy jobs having a place like that. Not in a warehouse, not in a squat, just no. Certainly not without a chain lock on the door, or two, or three. This is just the topmost layer of plastic-y fake in this show.
Simone
April 19, 2019 at 9:14 pm“First, let me get the klutz-at-cleaning thing out.”
I mean, the anime exaggerates, but cleaning is a skill like any other. If untrained, you’ll be worse at it. Mostly it’ll just result in a less spectacular result, like things still being dirty afterwards.
“I don’t see a kid, scrounging, bartering, busking, and taking gig-economy jobs having a place like that.”
That’s absolutely true. My gf commented yesterday she’d gladly swap houses with Carole – and we pay £900 per month for our current one.
maxttien
April 19, 2019 at 11:24 amI agree Zankyou’s disaster but bebop not overrated.
did you watch macross plus or samurai champloo.
Scampi
April 19, 2019 at 1:05 pmWhen I’m on the fence about a show and don’t really have time to watch another episode (spring season is packed) I usually read your post to see whether the next episode has improved anything. Seems like the manufactured factors I felt is here to stay, I have never seen shows improve that much on its tone and inspirations. What’s worse the sterile disconnection with the girls is worse than in Zankyou no Terror, plot wise I feel like reading a bad fanfiction, too contrived.
Yukie
April 19, 2019 at 2:31 pmI agree with you about the “manufactured” feel to this show. I had the same feeling with Zankyou no Terror. The visuals and music are pretty, but there’s no heart in it. In both series I found myself not partly caring either about the characters or the story. The biggest difference I guess is the fact that Carole and Tuesday has a straightforward, predictable plot. I dropped Zankyou quickly because I couldn’t stand the pretentiousness of some of the plotlines, but I’ll stick around and see how this one plays out.
In terms of context and world-building, I think RobiHachi does the futuristic, space civilization better. C&T for some reason just feels extremely old-timey (the music too).
Litho
April 19, 2019 at 4:29 pmWhoever bankrolled this show made a checklist of things that the director had to tick. That’s my take. May not be a bad thing, but yeah, it does feel a tad synthetic. On the bright side, it can’t possibly burn you as bad as that second season of Bahamut (the Trump x Thot one), can it?
Guardian Enzo
April 19, 2019 at 4:37 pmIn the sense that one would have to care quite a bit to be burned as much as Bahamut S2 did, yeah – C & T would have to pick it up considerably for that to be a risk.
What you say may be true – in which case it’s pretty depressing that a director of Watanabe’s stature would have to do that to get a show bankrolled. Or it could be that he’s fine with all of this and isn’t that interested in pushing any envelopes at this point in his career. Or maybe it’s the toll to pay for working with Netflix.
Litho
April 19, 2019 at 4:48 pmWell, that’s modern Japan in a nutshell, isn’t it? Most of the money/power/influence is being monopolized by the trailblazers of three decades ago, except they’re no longer blazing trails, happy to count their money while sipping on their own current complacency in a geriatric ward that was gifted to them by foreign conglomerates in exchange for all their intellectual property and patent portfolio.
Guardian Enzo
April 19, 2019 at 6:18 pmLOL. Modern Japan is no different than anywhere else in the money/power/influence monopoly department (including the States, for Goc’s sake). But I choose not to believe it’s quite that cut and dry with Watanabe and his fellow icons. Maybe you’re right and maybe you’re not, but all I can do is give my honest opinion on what’s put in front of me on the screen.
Bel
April 19, 2019 at 11:01 pmI think C&T is fine enough for the story it’s telling. It’s too wide-eyed dreamer for my taste, and it’s not my kind of music. NANA is more my thing anyway.
While I was reading the comments on Animesuki forum, I thought about idol shows for one split second, but let’s leave it at that.
Bel
April 19, 2019 at 11:15 pmJust to add: I think C&T will find a greater casual audience that aren’t usually into anime when the show hits Netflix, and maybe that’s the point. It looks pretty, and it looks like the kind of show that parents wouldn’t mind their tweens watching.
Ronbb
April 20, 2019 at 2:55 amEnzo, if you don’t feel that you’d like this show — even when you try — don’t force yourself. Drop it. Trust your gut, and don’t make yourself suffer. Anime enjoyment is a personal and subjective matter, and everyone is different.
I did think about what you said, did a bit of reflection and asked myself why I like this show so much. I honestly don’t rely on who the director is or which studio produces a show — those are just reference points. To me, it comes down to whether the characters are genuine (like how real people will act) and the writing is demeaning to any genders, capabilities, ethnic backgrounds and choices of life (this is my bottom line) on both sides of the screen.
This show, to me, feels genuine through and through…the story, writing and characters come off naturally, if not sincere in its own way. I can see real people behaving like a Carole or Angela, and no character is “forced” to act dumb to fit any bill — which, to me, is disrespectful to a viewer’s intelligence. Is the message or premise overused? Perhaps, but I don’t find any problem when it is sincere and encouraging. Should we expect more from Watanabe-sensei? Sure, but I didn’t contribute much financially, so I’m fine. Is this show trying hard to appeal to the Western audience. Who cares, and isn’t it better to bring anime to a wider audience? I will be curious to see how both Japanese and Western viewers think, any differences in their views…
I have to say — and this is honest to God — the words “manufactured” and “manipulating” came into my mind last week. It’s not when I was watching C&T. To be truthfully honest, it’s when I was watching — and I’m going to invite so many to hate me — Fruits Basket. I do want and try hard to like it. However, Fruits Basket is manufactured and manipulating, regardless of how many followers and fame that it gathers. I can go on and on for why, but I’d honour that we’re all different, and we simply need to be honest to our feelings.
Do I want to Enzo to like C&T? Yes, of course. Do I want Enzo to suffer? Totally not, and please don’t. It makes me smile when I see joy coming through the lines of your posts…so forget about C&T. Be Enzo, be happy!
Guardian Enzo
April 20, 2019 at 8:45 amROFL, thanks – I appreciate it. But believe me, part of my job as a reviewer is to air my angst – it makes it sound worse than it is. After 2018 (with Banana Fish, Running Boys and Kakakuri) I’m quite prepared to drop a show I had high expectations for if it doesn’t float my bobber.
Jimmy Vega
July 12, 2019 at 4:49 amCAROLE & TUESDAY is overrated by its fans, the anime its kind of kawaii, but its not as great, deep, interesting or original as previous Wanatabe works. The plot is not something new, a story about a star is born, something you can see in other movies. Various episodes developing in a singing tv show as American Idol is kind of emetic. I think the young people enjoy must of this anime, personally I think is very forgettable.