Fate/Zero – 24

June 17, 2012Guardian EnzoUncategorizedAnime, Fate/Zero, reviews

[Commie] Fate ⁄ Zero - 24 [0F813FE3].mkv_snapshot_02.25_[2012.06.16_16.02.06]

[Commie] Fate ⁄ Zero - 24 [0F813FE3].mkv_snapshot_16.00_[2012.06.16_16.15.51]

[Commie] Fate ⁄ Zero - 24 [0F813FE3].mkv_snapshot_21.48_[2012.06.16_16.21.39]

Damn, it really sucks to be Irisviel’s neck lately.

In a sense, the pressure is really off for me when it comes to blogging Fate/Zero. I have no emotional attachment to any of the surviving characters, so I’m free to enjoy the last two episodes on a purely intellectual level – which is probably the best way to watch an Urobuchi anime in the final analysis – and see how he tries to tie all these myriad threads together. The second season has been a gradual emotional tune-out for me anyway, and in a sense the series ended last week. But the main dish here is the philosophical dilemma that’s at the heart of every Urobuchi work.

But I also think this is kind of a minefield for me, given the heated passions of many viewers when it comes to Kiritsugu and his own philosophy. There’s not a lot to be gained in getting too deeply into that, because Urobuchi has pretty much settled the question beyond any reasonable doubt. It isn’t so much that Kiritsugu’s philosophy is fatally flawed and has been from the beginning – though it certainly is, merely stating that in itself would be far too sunny a view for Urobuchi. Rather, I think he’s saying “Sure, Kiritsugu has been following the garden path from the beginning – but as wrong as he is, I’m not going to offer another idea as a substitute – because there is no answer. Life is suffering, and in the end what we do doesn’t really matter. Kanpai!”

It certainly can’t come as a surprise to even someone who never managed to finish F/SN and hasn’t read F/Z that the Holy Grail would turn out to be a poisoned chalice. After all – the world is hardly free of conflict and pain now, is it? With Urobuchi it isn’t so much a matter of an ending filled with misery, but the shape it takes and how it arrives. The final battle (seemingly) between Kirei and Kiritsugu was certainly impressive, a chance for ufotable to once again show their mastery of CGI, and it seems to me that Kirei would certainly have won if it hadn’t been for Avalon (which I’m assuming he didn’t know Kiritsugu had). As misguided as Kiritsugu’s ideals are, though, it can’t be denied that they drove him forward with impressive tenacity. As a battle of mages Kirei probably came out on top, and Avalon ultimately was the instrument of Kiritsugu’s “triumph” – but it could reasonably be argued that it was the fact that he possessed a dream to pursue while Kirei possessed only doubt and emptiness that carried the day for Kiritsugu.

The scene inside the grail is the sort that Urobuchi excels in writing. It was a great intellectual discourse on the nature of conseuqentialism and a complete disassembly of Kiritsugu’s psyche. If there’s anything Gen-san loves it’s esoteric ideas and torturing characters, and he was like a kid in a candy shop here. The intellectual arguments are elegant in their simplicity, and categorically show Kiritsugu how wrong he’s been and where his line of thinking ends. The “501 survivors in a lifeboat” riddle is a nice variation on the classic philosophical condundrum, but the pièce de résistance was showing the grim reality of all this to Kiritsugu – forcing him to systematically choose to kill everyone he’s ever loved, building up to Iris and Ilya, who he must murder with his own hands, and to be cursed by the Grail to suffer at every moment until he dies.

Of course there’s nothing but tragedy in all this – Kiritsugu has been putting himself through this misery, pretending to be emotionless to shut himself off from the horrors he commits, effectively for nothing. No, there’s no better answer forthcoming from the Grail – or anywhere else – but that doesn’t negate the sins Kiritsugu committed chasing his mirage or the suffering he endured doing so. Ultimately his decision to destroy the Grail was probably the least misguided one he made in the series, though I’m not convinced it’s going to accomplish what he thinks it will.

In order to to do that of course he uses his command seal to order Saber to do so, which is certainly the only way she would have cooperated. Of Saber’s battle with Lancelot I confess I didn’t feel a whole lot. It wasn’t especially stunning visually, and we’ve been given so little background into Lancelot and his past with Saber that the whole encounter had a curiously detached feel. Saber as a character has been something of an anti-climax this season – her apex probably came during the epic “Conference of Kings” in S1, where her worldview was really highlighted and put on trial. This season she’s been largely an accessory, rarely at either the emotional or intellectual center of the series. Gilgamesh’s marriage “proposal” was highly entertaining in that it perfectly suited his arrogant nature, but it sort of come out of left field.

Overall the pacing of the ep felt a bit rushed (I think Saber and Lancelot’s arc should have gotten its own episode, probably) and there are a couple of things that are puzzling or awkward as an anime-only F/Z viewer. How Kirei manages to survive the events of this episode is a question I suppose will be answered next week, and I don’t recall getting much (any?) background on Angra Mainyu before now – I had to look the term up in fact (needless to say, the Grail wasn’t paying Kiritsugu a compliment with that comparison). But on balance we got a payoff that was solidly entertaining and about what I expected – the two Masters I expected to fight fought, the one I expected to win won, and the whole thing pretty much blew up in his face. It was all done in grand ufotable fashion, and a celebration of despair as only Urobuchi Gen can deliver.

Guardian Enzo

53 comments

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yokushi
June 17, 2012 at 12:49 am
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First, Kiritsugu vs. Kotomine very much lived to was described in the novel (aside some small details). I loved it.

Then, Saber and Lancelot… It felt that detached because they skipped a lot (time constrictions, as you see they even cut the OP) and they probably will add it in the BD (as they did with episode 11). To be specific, they cut Lancelot past, his motivation and the way he shocked Saber with his last words.

Then, Angra Mainyu – All the evil in this world… Heh, here is were the problem with prequels come. What lies inside of the Grail is only fully explained in the final route of Fate/stay night VN, Heaven's Feel (Sakura route) so Urobuchi had his hands tied here.
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florafauna
June 17, 2012 at 2:41 am
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Wait, wha? What did they add on episode 11's BD version? Why have I never heard of this until now? Where have I been? Gasp~!

…..Seriously, what is it? Anybody?
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yokushi
June 17, 2012 at 2:52 am
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They added like 6 more minutes.
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florafauna
June 17, 2012 at 2:57 am
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any detail worth mentioning? I'm sure it's not a spoiler at this point.
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belatkuro
June 17, 2012 at 4:59 am
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Tokiomi ordering Kirei to summon all the Assassins, Kirei using one Command Seal to order the Assassins to fight with no retreat, Archer's very amusing laughter at Saber's wish, Archer saying he'll be the one to kill Rider, etc. A lot of additions in there really and I really hope this episode gets the same additions with the Saber vs Berserker part.
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Grim Angel
June 17, 2012 at 12:52 am
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To understand about Angra Manyu's role in the Holy Grail War, about the Grail corruption and the true nature of the war you have to read Fate/Stay Night vn
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 1:07 am
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You are certainly not the only one who thought this episode was rushed… because it was. What's missing? Oh well, for example all of Lancelot's flashbacks, his last conversation with Saber etc. Saber with her evil eyes was missing, too. I guess the bluray version will be something lie 40min long. Overall, I'm not happy with the changes(the whole building was already on fire, goddammit!), but I can't judge the episode completely without seeing the bluray version. Sucks for TV-only viewers, but I guess that can't be helped.

This episode however clearly showed what Kiritsugu would have to do to achieve "world peace": kill mankind until the only two people he sees as completely equal to him are left. As he once said, he gladly would have become "All the evils of the world", like Angra Mainyu, if that had saved the world. But he sacrificed the things he cared about again and was even cursed at the end. I can only pity Kiritsugu. Lancer's wish unfortunately came true…

The explanations in general are lacking in FZ and this episode shows again that it's not first-time viewer-friendly and requires background knowledge.

Okay, those who knew FSN knew it for a long time already, but the grail will interprete every wish in a destructive way. The Grail wasn't tainted in the first wars, though, so Kiritsugu's childish wish really could've been fulfilled in the other wars.
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yokushi
June 17, 2012 at 1:17 am
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I think they didn't add fire in Kotomine vs. Kiritsugu because they wanted that Matrix feel they got.

I think it was awesome.
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 1:37 am
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Saber vs Gilgamesh (if one actually wants to call that a fight) looked less awesome without the fire, though imo. I prefer fire, but that might have exploded the budget…

And somehow I imagined the room where Kiritsugu and Kirei fought didn't look that… empty. But yeah, Matrix. I thought there were pillars and all that stuff where both were hiding at the beginning. And Kirei punched/blocked the hell out of that origin bullet with his reinforced fists.
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florafauna
June 17, 2012 at 2:56 am
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Hmm, I asked this in my comment way way below, but now I read this:

"This episode however clearly showed what Kiritsugu would have to do to achieve "world peace": kill mankind until the only two people he sees as completely equal to him are left."

Well, I don't buy this at all. In fact, If that's what the writers were aiming here, well, it's quite silly. Why do you have to kill every human except like two people to end this so-called "holy war" forever? It's so stupid way to prove one's point, which is indirect way of saying that ending the war for the golden cup is impossible. It's just a cup, darn it! Why must it be so darn hard? (no pun intended!)
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 4:32 am
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Kerry was not trying to end the Holy Grail war, he was trying to end 'all' conflicts in the world, and bringing permanent peace to the world. The dream sequence basically showed him that such a wish is impossible to achieve since human beings themselves are the core of the conflicts in the world, therefore peace can only be achieved by eradicating every single person in the world.
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Seishun Otoko
June 17, 2012 at 1:21 am
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Mind blowing episode, though I agree the pacing felt a bit rushed and for a non-LN reader like me, I certainly required help to get my head around things. F/Z could definitely use 30 episodes to properly tell the story and with the BDs selling better than hot cakes (>50k, woohoo!!!), I wonder why Ufotable didn't plan more episodes.
Just wondering, how would Enzo tackle the “501 survivors in a lifeboat” riddle? And what would you do if you were in Kiritsugu's shoes? 😉
admin
June 17, 2012 at 2:28 am
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I would never be in those shoes, Seishun, as I've categorically disagreed with his philosophy right from the beginning.

As for the lifeboat question, philosophers have been asking that one for Centuries. I think this is one of the points Urobuchi is trying to make – there is no "right" answer. Life presents us with no-win situations sometimes – and by trying to cheat our way out of them, we only make things worse.
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Awet M
June 17, 2012 at 6:40 am
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This is where you fall short as a critic, and prove yourself a typical anime blogger.

Gen Urobuchi is not offering up a philosophy for us to judge, to agree or disagree with.

He is painting a Schopenhauerian portrait of reality within the parameters of the Fate/X world, one that is rooted in Buddhist interpretations of desire and satisfaction. As a critic, your job is to decode, interpret and evaluate the anime, not present your ideology as an alternative.
admin
June 17, 2012 at 6:45 am
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And your job, apparently, is to tell me what my job is…

You have your interpretation, I have mine. I'm very comfortable with it, as I'm sure you are too.
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 11:09 am
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Anime blogging is serious business.
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Kinny Riddle
June 17, 2012 at 3:45 pm
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Seriously, Awet M, what's with that haughty "holier-than-thou" attitude? What gives you the bloody right to brand Enzo, or anyone else for that matter, as a "superb critic" or "typical anime blogger"?

Get off your fucking high horse already!
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Anonymous
June 18, 2012 at 11:41 am
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"Gen Urobuchi is not offering up a philosophy for us to judge, to agree or disagree with."

So, he doesn't want us to have opinions? I strongly doubt that. Why not question Kiritsugu's ideals? It promotes discussion.

This is Enzo's blog, his reviews, his opinions; it would make for a boring affair if reviews were objective.
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Croos
June 17, 2012 at 1:35 am
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Damn, it really sucks to be Irisviel’s neck lately.

Not just Irisviel, Enzo. Illya too.
admin
June 17, 2012 at 2:30 am
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Yeah, but Iris' got the same treatment by two different characters!
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Kentaiyoshimi
June 17, 2012 at 2:17 am
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Am I the only one who thinks the room where Kiritsugu and Kirei fought looked like Batman's bunker in the movies? Nonetheless, that fight was epic and amazingly well animated.

I really do wish we get another episode that properly explains Saber's and Lancelot's relationship. Considering that the link between them has been foreshadowed throughout the entire series, <5 mins of closure isn't justified at all.

Damn, I really need to finish (read start) Heaven's Feel. It has all the backstory to the Grail War, but I just can't stand having Sakura as the heroine.
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Kob264
June 17, 2012 at 5:23 am
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if it makes you feel bether, she the heroine and an anagonist at the same time in that route.
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Fencedude
June 17, 2012 at 11:39 pm
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Sakura's balls-to-the-wall awesome in Heaven's Feel
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Anonymous
June 18, 2012 at 10:16 am
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What are you talking about, sakura is by far the cutest heroine in fate/stay night. She's so deredere in her route!
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Helen
June 17, 2012 at 2:32 am
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I also don't recall getting any background on the Angra Mainyu thing before (I'd come across the term on tvtropes before but that was in reference to Fate/Hollow Atraxia and I still can't figure out if that one is a canon sequel), although looking it up on the Type-Moon wiki sure explains a few things about the Grail war in the process….
And agreed about Saber, I've been kinda sad that she hasn't, well, done as much as she did in the first season and I agree that she seemed to be at her peak in the conference in kings. Although all the LN readers seem to be saying that there was stuff cut here so hopefully that makes it to the BRs (and that Aniplex releases a cheaper set over here so I can actually afford them!)
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 11:28 am
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No, Saber never really was a star in fate zero. Her time was in fate route of fate stay night.
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florafauna
June 17, 2012 at 2:35 am
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Hmmm, I am guessing that they might be offering "another idea as a substitute" in the next two episodes, GE. Why else have extra TWO episodes when you can pretty much finish this story in one more? Since I am not too familiar with LN, so I can't be sure, but I was somewhat surprised that the story has progressed so much in this episode: Kotomine dead (sort of?), Berserker dead, what's-his-name, the bug man, dead. Kiritsugu is pretty much the only master alived in the game (Waver has withdrawn from the game :P) and Saber+Archer left. What could they possibly need TWO more episodes for? It's a rhetorical question, mind you, so don't spoil me!

A few more comments:
1) I think that Archer came with the marriage proposal thing ONLY because Saber is a girl. Had Saber been a girl, I'm sure a fight to death (ala Archer vs. Rider) have been staged. A bit of sexism coming from Archer.

2) Why the heck the bug man died just because Berserker died? Since when servant's death means his master's death? eh? I don't get it~~! They'd better properly send off the bug man, the only dude who started the war selflessly and not some cheap afterthought death!

3) Forgive me, but I thought Kiritsugu's goal for the golden cup was "the end of fight/conflict forever"? Which is it, a) the end of fight b) "saving human race"? or c) "saving his wife and daughter"? Make up mind, darn it~~! The golden cup's hallucination is implying that it's c), which Kiritsugu refused. Or one can argue that it's b) and the whole exercise of "who you'd rather kill" segment was to dispel that hope. But back to my point: the hallucination didn't address a) at all!! Sure b) and/or c) is somewhat connected to a), but not really. They are separate things. The golden cup didn't really address how it'd achieve to end fight/conflict for good. Surely not by sinking boat after boat. It (the cup) was aiming for c) anyway.

4) Saber is no more nobler than (or as ugly as) Kiritsugu or even Kotomine and Archer at this point. She's basically, "I don't care anymore, just gimme the cup, damn it!" It seems to me that she doesn't care master/servant thing or anything else and just wants to have the cup for herself. I'm sure she'd understand if Kiritsugu sit her down and explain about the cup patiently and lovingly, but no… fat chance. I'm sure she'd resent him for the rest of days now instead of reflecting on her faults. Pttts.
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florafauna
June 17, 2012 at 2:46 am
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wait, I meant to write for 3) the end of fight/conflict "for the golden cup" forever. "the end of fight" is a too vague and broad term.
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yokushi
June 17, 2012 at 2:57 am
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2 – His worms exploded and Berserker lost because lack of magic energy. You will see a bit more of Kariya episode.

3 – Kiritsugu was always "killing" his own feelings to perform his ideal, so it is kinda obvious that he as a man want to be happy too and be with his wife and daughter. He forced himself to "save the world".
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yokushi
June 17, 2012 at 2:59 am
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Agh, "next" episode.
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Kob264
June 17, 2012 at 6:20 am
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Ok

1)He likes her, so she is his new toy.

2)The guy had lost his sanity, he didn´t care annymore, so he let Berserker drain all his magic to fight Saber. when his magic run out, the worms inside him started to feast on his vital organs and killed him, when he died berserker had used all his magic and lost agains Saber.

3)Acording to my take of it, Kiristsugu wishes for B+C of your wish options. The grial shows him how it would grant them first by killing everything but kiritsugu , Ilia and Iris, then locking them in a reallity marble for them to have an utopic life without conflict. This way all of humanity would consist of those 3 and both wishes would be granted.
The moment Kiritsugu Killed Ilia and Iris, was the moment he rejected the pln the grial had done to grant the wish, in other words he chose to kill his wish and happines to avoud that outcome. Tnr methaphore is shown to make the audience how the grial would slove the problem by taking the easy way out, instead of solving all the litle conflictr, it woul get rid of the source of the conflict (us humans) that way conceptually granting the wish.

4)She killed her former best friend, lost her princess Ilia, she is tired from the other battle, and then a golden armored dude propposes to her while trowin many kinds of legendary weapons at hear. Then that…
I can't blame her.
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Anonymous
June 18, 2012 at 4:35 am
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"It seems to me that she doesn't care master/servant thing or anything else and just wants to have the cup for herself."

While I agree that she's obsessively driven, why should she care about Kiritsugu's wishes at this point? Kiritsugu has been nothing but dismissive and insulting to her since the day she was summoned, she owes him nothing. "Servants" answer the summons because they themselves have a wish to fulfill, they're not some sort of convenient robot that unquestioningly serves the Master's purposes, especially when the Master treats them badly.
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Anonymous
July 10, 2012 at 12:45 am
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Wasn't that also because, according to the Round Table legend, King Arthur was looking for the Grail with his twelve knights and stuff ?
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Ishruns
June 17, 2012 at 3:40 am
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Isn't it Angry Mainyu, that is what the sub for Fate Hollow called him.

Having played several Type-moon games, I must confess that I would be very disappointed if he didn't get any exposition in Fate/Zero. He is one of the most interesting characters in the series and he is quite similar to Kiritsugu and yet uniquely different. His entire existence is also one of the most epic philosophical ideas in the Nasuverse.

I think the main problem with Saber is that she isn't a character that Urobuchi has very little control over her or her actions due to her role and personality in the Fate sequels. The same goes for Gilgamesh and his left field actions this week. Urobuchi didn't create it but has to comply to it. As a result the best characters in F/Z are the ones that Urobuchi came up with himself like Rider.

The preview suggests that a highly anticipated event will take place next week for those of us possessing the lore of Fate.
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Ishruns
June 17, 2012 at 3:41 am
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isn't = is 😉
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Spinning
June 17, 2012 at 2:40 pm
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>Angry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angra_Mainyu
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The_Magus_Killer
June 17, 2012 at 6:05 am
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I was so focused on the fight between Emiya Kiritsugu and Kotomine Kirei I didn't care anymore about the wishes, philosophies or what-have-you of the characters. The other characters didn't matter anymore.

For me, in this episode: there was only the Magus Killer and the Fake Priest, two grown men trying to kill each other. Kiritsugu and Kirei; Magus Killer and Evil Priest. I bet Rikiya Koyama and Joji Nakata had a blast doing their dialogues inside the studio.

Urobuchi Gen, you magnificent bastard, thank you for Fate/Zero.
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 6:59 am
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Fate/Zero killed Kiritsugu for me with his clichéd backstory.
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Anon
June 18, 2012 at 10:53 am
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I can't really blame you for that.
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 7:14 am
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Yeah, I thought the Lancelot plot would be difficult for anime-only viewers, given that… well, that it's never explained explicitly why Saber was responsible for his condition.

With only one episode remaining, I don't know that they had much choice but to cut it, but honestly, I wish they'd cut most of the anime-original Rin episode to make room for this on the back-end.

That said, the Kirei/Kiritsugu fight worked far better than I'd imagined from the novel's description (probably because I, too, have little emotional investment in either character, and so am in that fight for the eye candy).

Whatever they add for the BD release, I assume they'll at least add in some of the context lines for Gilgamesh's otherwise out-of-nowhere proposal. As it is, his line questioning her desire for the Grail still felt rushed and in response to nothing, and nothing I could do in editing would've saved it.

And Angra Mainyu, yeah, we have technically come across it earlier, in the "All the Evil in the World" title a couple eps back. But it wasn't named as such there.

This was a difficult episode overall–I didn't really expect to like it as much as last week's, and indeed, I didn't, but the parts I expected to still hold some emotional weight for me (Lancelot/Saber) clearly didn't, and the parts that I wasn't so thrilled for (Kiritsugu/Kirei), worked great. I guess it just illustrates again how different two media are, and how difficult adaptation can be. At least it appears they won't short the epilogues, since they are devoting the entire final episode to them.
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 11:07 am
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The Rin episode was pointless. They only put in there for people who have a hard-on for lolicon.
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Beckett
June 17, 2012 at 7:31 am
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I've started playing the Fate/Stay Night VN about a week ago. I haven't gotten far, only just nearing the end of the first route, but even with what I've seen so far it really makes me appreciate this show a LOT more. This show is good enough that anybody can enjoy it at face value, but after playing part of the VN I'm now starting to think that 100% enjoyment can only happen if you are familiar with the events there.

For the record, I do think Kiritsugu's dream to end all conflict everywhere is childish and silly, conflict is part of human nature. But I agree with his philosophy of sacrificing the few to save the many. I remember in a philosophy class in college 10 years ago being given a very similar problem as his boat riddle (except mine involved out of control trains and only being able to stop one) and I answered much as he would have. If train A is going to take out 20 people, and train B is going to take out 30 people, all else being equal you save the 30. I don't think his core philosophy is wrong, I think he takes it a wrong extreme (ANY ideal can be bad taken too far) but at it's foundation it's not wrong.
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Beckett
June 17, 2012 at 8:23 am
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Also wanted to say in regard to

"Ultimately his decision to destroy the Grail was probably the least misguided one he made in the series, though I’m not convinced it’s going to accomplish what he thinks it will."

You obviously know it isn't going to accomplish it. It's not a matter of convincing. Fate/Stay Night exists, so obviously it doesn't work. His goal in destroying it appears to be ending the grail war for all time, but since we know for a fact that another one happens 10 years later then it obviously does not work.
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 7:34 am
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I should add that another reason I lament the shortening of Lancelot/Saber is that it really provides a nice contrast to the other fights happening simultaneously.

Although I suppose it's quite obvious, I really didn't catch–until watching this episode–the clear inverse relationship of Saber/Kiritsugu; the man who will take on all the evil in the world, and the woman who embodied all the ideals of her people. Both were martyrs to their own ideals, but in very different ways. Ultimately, though, they both end up at the same place, being thoroughly schooled by those ideals. The fact that the anime for this episode cuts a lot of her real despair here hurts some of that dynamic.

I don't pretend this is the deepest series ever, but the fight of ideals (of kingship, of how to save the world, etc.) is one of the real pleasures of this series, to me. So anything that hurts that does the series some damage.
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The Kenosha Kid
June 17, 2012 at 10:30 am
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"Rather, I think he’s saying 'Sure, Kiritsugu has been following the garden path from the beginning – but as wrong as he is, I’m not going to offer another idea as a substitute – because there is no answer.'"
For what it's worth, in the Fate/Stay Night visual novel (not quite so much in the mediocre anime), Nasu tries his damnedest to provide an answer or two. You should seriously consider giving that a read.

Also, how much of Urobuchi's work are you familiar with? Out of curiosity.
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 11:37 am
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Which story would you conisder to be darker, fate zero or Heavens's feel? Personally I felt Heaven's feel was quite messed up (tsukihime style).
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Kinny Riddle
June 17, 2012 at 3:48 pm
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Poor Kiritsugu, always getting toyed by Urobuchi.

First he had Kiritsugu shoot down his adopted-mother's plane on Mother's Day.

Now he has Kiritsugu blow the brains out of the grail's physical manifestation of his daughter on Father's Day.

What next? Dying on his deathbed with Shirou at his side on Children's Day?

Finally we'll get to see Shirou next episode, and watch everything come full circle, as it's clearly his voice narrating in the preview.
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Kinny Riddle
June 17, 2012 at 4:07 pm
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Compared to all the talk of honour and chivalry spoken between Saber and Lancer, or of all the trashtalking and glory between Gilgamesh and Rider.

I like the fact that Kiritsugu and Kirei dispensed with all the niceties and got straight on with their no-nonsense fight.

As Kiritsugu vs Kirei was the final we all wanted to see, balancing the scales, it was perhaps understandable that ufotable had to cut back on Saber vs Berserker, what with all the Arthurian connection between them.

Had I not been versed in Arthurian legend or not read the novels, I would have been quite confused with how quickly it ended.

Hopefully the blu-ray version restores those deleted scenes.
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Anonymous
June 17, 2012 at 7:02 pm
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This was one of the few Fate/Zero episodes that really left me unsatisfied. Skipping Lancelot's motivations feels like a plothole to me. Hope they will added everything in the BD version and make justice to him and to the light novel T_T

BTW, I'm waiting for memes with Neo-Kiritsugu, Matrix anyone?

Akira
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Lenn
June 18, 2012 at 4:26 am
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Was expecting a lot more from the Saber/Berserker fight. The time constraints are understandable, but in that case I strongly question the need for the two full episodes of flashback. I suppose that's where the emotional indifference towards Kiritsugu detracts from the show – since I have no investment in the remaining participants, knowing that Saber destroys the Grail from FSN – the Kiritsugu/Kotomine fight was technically interesting to watch but emotionally unengaging, and I'd really rather watch more interaction between Saber and Lancelot, who seemed to regain some semblance of sanity towards the end. Saber's hard, obsessive mannerisms in the final parts seems to suggest that deep down she is, or has become, resigned to the idea of winning at any cost as Lancer had mistakenly accused her of way back when, and it seems suggested that her fight with Berserker tipped it over the edge there – that, like Kiritsugu, she's sacrificed so much that the only way to validate all of that was through a miracle.

As driven as he is Kiritsugu doesn't have a clear picture of how to achieve his ideal, clinging desperately to the one hope of a miracle that will not only facilitate the power to change the world but also magically resolve the *how* of going about such a thing. It feels a bit of a cop-out that he fails due to the Grail turning not only to be not as advertised but also evil to begin with, rather than having somebody capable of formulating a good philosophical argument (Rider or Gilgamesh, maybe) call him out on it, but I suppose that's continuity constraints for you.
M

Mormegil
June 18, 2012 at 11:51 am
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Kiritsugu killing his daughter was way too harsh and sadistic, even for Urobuchi's standards. Irisviel's screams of terror, shock, and pain were absolutely haunting and sad. Incredibly job by Sayaka Ohara there. Man, it was just a tough scene to watch. Illusion or not, sometimes Urobuchi goes too far.

On another note, kind of a disappointing end for Kariya. He slumps over and dies, that's it. Way underused in this show. There wasn't much of an emotional connection with him despite his selfless goal. He started off as a character to be pitied, but then went insane at the end of it all. He didn't manage much, and poor Sakura is screwed.
K

Kaname
June 18, 2012 at 3:37 pm
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I agree, that scene was haunting – Irisviel screaming her daughter's name and demanding and cursing Kiritsugu makes it all the more horrifying!

But that ain't nothing compare to the manga. The manga pushes to the extreme in terms of sheer gore – it simply was traumatizing. Mere descriptions of the seek may cause readers to puke.

TQ
b

boingman
June 18, 2012 at 11:15 pm
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Man, the Blu-ray edition of this episode will certainly be longer than 30 mins, maybe even more than 40 as someone else already said, considering how much they had to leave out.
When the episode first switched to the Saber-Berserker fight at the 25 sec mark, I thought that my download was corrupted, considering how the music stopped for a moment, but now I guess that this is simply one of the many cut points that ufotable had to make for the tv edition.

Looking forward to finally seeing Shirou next episode.

Guardian Enzo

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