Oh, Banana Fish – you’re determined not to make this easy, aren’t you?
I’m pretty much assuming any criticism of Banana Fish is going to be taking personally by its partisans, if the past five weeks are anything to go by. That’s a shame, because there are (to me at least) both some legitimately very good and very troubling things about this series. That the one exists doesn’t deny the existence of the other – nor does pointing it out. Not everything is about intolerance or prejudice – sometimes a writing problem is just a writing problem.
The thing is, in many respects I liked this episode a lot – maybe as much as any in the series so far. I thought the pacing was great, some of the more “interior” emotional moments were excellent, and some of Ash’s family drama and the whole Ibe-Eiji subplot worked pretty well. Plus, if you have Hirata Hiroaki singing “My Darling Clementine” you immediately get a couple get-out-of-jail-free cards. All in all, there was a lot to hang your hat on here for the future of the series – but Banana Fish has a tendency to give with one hand and take away with the other, and that’s certainly how this ep felt to me.
First off – does everyone want to rape Ash? I mean, it just seems unlikely. I know I’m not supposed to suggest that the mangaka has an obsession here or that this is a trope being overused, but seriously – we haven’t had a single episode without Ash being raped or a detailed account of Ash being raped. OK, fine – he’s seriously unlucky or irresistible to pedos, let’s go with that. But that’s just the start of it all, really.
Let’s begin with the town. Accusing a 7 year-old boy of seducing an adult man? Yes, accusers something have that thrown at them and especially in small towns, there can be a “rally round the flag” syndrome when a beloved member of the community is accused. But seduced by a 7 year-old? And once you get past that – just accept that the police choose to take no action against a child rapist when the crime can easily be proven with a medical examination – his father chooses to do nothing? He lets the man continue to rape his son, but tells him to “make him pay for it”?
Indeed, maybe Ash is just the unluckiest person in the world. But I have another problem here, which is what happens after Golzine’s men track the fleeing party down (which, if we’re honest, should have taken about 5 minutes – he just went back to the family house). After Jennifer (I agree with Ash, way too good for his old man) gets shot and killed, no one seems especially upset by it. One offhand “only the good die young” from Dad, and everyone gets on with business? Touching goodbyes with Dad, joking around on the truck, and nobody has a word for the innocent woman lying dead on the floor of the diner? It just felt wrong, tonally – in a big way.
That cuts to the heart of it for me, really. We have a couple of disconnects here which make Banana Fish play as kind of tone-deaf. First, you have characters still talking and acting like they’re in the 1980’s when they’ve been time-shifted by 30 years. And you have a story set in an America that’s transparently a Japanese fantasy America, culled from 80’s detective shows and crime novels (and the 30-year lag doesn’t help with that, either). There’s the core of something really good here, and sometimes it shines through – this series can be excellent for significant stretches of time, But that tone-deafness always drags it back down for me, and that’s a real shame. I want to fully embrace Banana Fish, because it’s way more substantial and ambitious than most of the competition. But there are too many whiffs for me to do that – strikeouts that keep this show stuck at the level of being merely good rather than being great.
Aeryn
August 10, 2018 at 12:27 pmI realize that my comment in the last post might have been to acerbic so I’m here to provide a better explanation of why the themes of sexual abuse are not salacious, but actually speak to women’s experiences with harassment (or worse).
First of all, there’s the issue of Banana Fish and BL – this observation does not concern your reviews overall, but some of the comments that have been made by various people in the LIA comment section and elsewhere.
Even though Banana Fish is not BL, BL and the evolution of BL have given some a carte blanche to disparage female viewers. Just look at how some guys talk about Free and how it’s fanservice or w/e, when the majority of animes are designed to appeal the male gaze (not to mention how many of them depict sexual abuse in a humorous manner)
No one is denying that there aren’t some issues in both shoujo and BL genres, especially where romanticizing sexual abuse in harassment is concerned, but this is not the case with Banana Fish. Yes, all the male antagonists want to posses Ash, but none of the scenes are made to titillate the female gaze. The abuse happens or is talked about, but it’s in crass terms and Ash is fighting back at every turn or he’s using his body to take advantage of his opponents.
I take issue with the way you return to the idea that the mangaka has an obsession with sexual abuse (see comment about “prurient glee”) especially since that indirectly implies that it’s prevalent because both the mangaka and the female viewership get off on it. But what we see on screen contradicts that assessment since all the interactions between Ash and the antagonists are designed to repulse the reader, they are vile and crass. In BL, when sexual abuse is designed for the female gaze, the route taken is one of manipulation, victim blaming and Stockholm Syndrome, but in Banana Fish, the abuse is not romanticized. You are entitled to your opinion, but you’re making it sound like it’s something wrong because of the target audience.
Moreover we’re not pathologizing all those (male) creators where the heroine is constantly threatened or where female side characters are sexually harassed or whatever. We’re not pathologizing Benioff and Weiss for the rape in GOT. Or what about the constant underage torture porn in Made in the Abyss, not no mention the more disturbing implications made in future manga chapters.
From the point of view of a woman, I find it superficial to say that the sexual abuse is gratuitous given that for us, the threat of sexual abuse is constant (on the streets, at the office, in personal relationships’) and we constantly have to navigate a dangerous maze where one wrong move will not only jeopardizes us, but also insure that we’re going to be victim blamed too. Only that in this case, the abuse is directed at a man. You question how Ash can be victim blamed for being raped while being only 7 years old… yet how many didn’t make excuses for Roy Moore sexually assaulting 14 and 16 years olds. Is it so far-fetched that in Backwards Nowheresville circa 1970s, some people would excuse that behavior or at least, turn a blind eye.
I’ll end by saying that where sexual abuse is concerned, it essentially provides a sexual exploration of various types of (toxic) masculinity and also, of (fe)male vulnerability. Ash might be a man, but his experiences read in a very feminine way. And while the Banana Fish is a product of the 80s, at least from this point of view, it feels very contemporaneous.
Ren
August 10, 2018 at 12:36 pmI was waiting for all the episodes to air maybe I should not
Guardian Enzo
August 10, 2018 at 3:55 pmYou’d have quite a wait. It’s two cour.
Yukie
August 10, 2018 at 7:49 pmWhat exactly is the Amadeus Syndrome? I kind of get it and I kind of don’t, based on Max and Ibe’s conversation.
I actually found the pacing problematic at the end of the episode. I don’t see why they can’t give more time for the characters to mourn over Jennifer and move the arrival in LA to next episode (but then again I’m not a manga-reader). I also thought this episode was the first one that had some writing problems, esp. regarding Ash’s Dad (according to some manga-readers in other forums, this arc is probably the least-well written one). Nevertheless, I guess it really shows that Ash has been constantly let down and left to his own devices by the adults around him, and I really like how Banana Fish introduces bits of character development on Ash and Eiji with each episode, letting us get to know them.
Guardian Enzo
August 10, 2018 at 10:22 pmWell, assuming it’s referring to the factionalized Mozart play/movie of the same name, I guess it’s referring to Salieri both loving/admiring and hating/envying the younger and more talented Mozart. The implication being that adults are so obsessed with younger versions of themselves that they take them with on trips overseas so as to bask in their youthful and hateful brilliance.
Yukie
August 11, 2018 at 6:23 pmI see, thanks (I actually googled the term and found nothing, lol)!
Scampi
August 10, 2018 at 9:38 pmIn my opinion it’s how long you can hold your suspension of disbelief in your enjoyment of a story. I think you’re quite entitled to express your frustration at the faults in the story, but I really hope your opening on the partisanship is not going to continue on more. For the ones who don’t side with you to be able to start the war again just from reading the opening paragraph is just inviting more dissent. If you hate them so much make them read through the whole thing and put your comment wars comment at end, why not?
Also as Aeryn said, looking over outrageous sexual abuse to soothe community stability is not uncommon in any backward place. It’s still happening everywhere in the world. Victim blaming is a thing, just blame the victim for being seductive, indecent like in any 3rd world Islam country. Your disbelief at it is quite tasteless to women and any sexual abuse victims who have to bear the brunt of it. And once someone is a victim of a pedophile ring, most probably they can never escape, crime networks make it easy to prey on past victims, especially since Ash can never be on the right side of the law.
Scampi
August 10, 2018 at 9:52 pmAlso not really fishing for reply, since this is just a part of the internet commenting here. It’s your thing if you want to “reply” to comments in the next episode review, but in my internet opinion you’d be doing a disservice to your post turning it into a forum topic board, and no one is really looking for it. If you have something to say to a comment please say it in the comments.
tokinokanatae
August 11, 2018 at 1:29 pmI’m pretty much assuming any criticism of Banana Fish is going to be taking personally by its partisans, if the past five weeks are anything to go by.
I’m not really sure why you’re saying that when the people commenting on your blog are perfectly capable of being critical of the series. I’ve always had a lot of choice things to say about the sloppy way they handled the resolution about Ash’s dad. I don’t even mind have a critical discussion about the use of “rape-as-peril” in the series at large; when it serves the narrative well and when it doesn’t.
The sticking point for me and for everyone else commenting is your insistence that there must be some sort of salacious motive in the depiction of rape on the half of the author and the consumption of the text by the readers. I mean, I’m sure you’d take issue with people painting those that love Made in Abyss as just waiting for the next dick slip from Reg, so why is it so ridiculously hard for you to understand you insulted a bunch of people and should maybe apologize for it instead of doubling down like you’re the only one telling truth to power?
Guardian Enzo
August 11, 2018 at 4:18 pm“Everyone”, or everyone who agrees with you?
I made plenty of comments about the unsettling parts of Made in Abyss and why they bothered me, starting with the First Impressions and ending with the Series Review. The difference, if I’m honest, is writing – that series was brilliantly written and this one is, for the most part, pretty mediocre. Whether that’s a function of the source material or some of it comes from the adaptation I don’t know, but it’s the real issue as far as I’m concerned.
tokinokanatae
August 11, 2018 at 5:40 pmIn case you hadn’t noticed, Enzo, your comments are full of people upset because A) you implied they are somehow getting off to the rape in Banana Fish, and B) have explained multiple times that the series is resonant for them because of the unsexualized way it handles each and every rape scene. You know what you don’t see a lot of? People agreeing with you that Yoshida and her fans are somehow getting a perverse thrill from the portrayal of rape.
There are plenty of parts in this series where the director is obviously going through the motions because the subject matter at hand is not of direct interest. The pacing is also a problem. Banana Fish is just as dense as something like Monster (which has the same amount of volumes) and is trying to hit every plot point in a third of the amount of the time allotted. However–and I’m not actually a particular fan of Utsumi–she’s really hitting the emotional beats she needs to hit in order for the stuff that made me fall in love with the series to resonate. (I’m also not going to pretend that Banana Fish itself doesn’t have faults, though talking about them veers into spoiler territory.)
None of Banana Fish’s faults and problems means that Yoshida is idealizing rape in the way you keep accusing her of. That’s the part that continues to be insulting about your reviews, not you pointing out that no one cared about Jennifer’s death, or that Ash’s dad’s big redemption scene is a sour wet fart of a note to end the episode on.
You’re a smart person, Enzo. I can only assume it’s willful ignorance at this point that makes you say things like “I know I’m not supposed to suggest that the mangaka has an obsession here” in one breath and then accuse your readers of this blog of being overprotective of the work itself in another. A source material and author you’re totally ignorant of, for that matter.
Guardian Enzo
August 11, 2018 at 6:47 pmListen, the matter at-hand is the anime – manga readers seem to be saying it’s pretty faithful but I can’t speak to that, you obviously feel differently. I kind of hope you’re right, because I’d like to think the manga is better than the anime which is pretty middling on balance. To be honest I’d probably already have dropped it (and I’m kind of on the edge of doing so anyway) if it weren’t for the fact that people would smugly declare it was for a different reason than the real one – which is that it’s just not that good.
You can plug in words like “idealizing” that I never used all you want, but it doesn’t change anything. I want there to be a really good anime dealing with male sexual abuse, it’s badly needed – Banana Fish just isn’t it. You can want a series to be great because the themes are ones that badly need to be addressed, but wanting doesn’t make it real. I wanted No.6 to be great because anime badly needed a series that depicted that sort of relationship in a non-exploitative way. It just wasn’t – wanting it was irrelevant. I wanted Wake up! Girls to be great because anime badly needed a series that exposed the idal trade for what it is, but that series wasn’t it. Wanting didn’t make it so.
Aeryn
August 12, 2018 at 3:45 amIn this case “idealizing” would’ve been better given that your words were objectively worse: “obsessive, almost leering fascination”, “a certain prurient glee in the way the author continues to serve up the same dish, time after time, to the point where it’s there for more than strictly narrative purposes”. Whereas, in reality, your reading couldn’t be further from the truth. Yes, the abuse is prevalent but unlike with the rape fantasy trope in yaoi, in BF, as critics have noted, the portrayal of rape is “universally negative and traumatic” (Wikipedia).
For a better understanding of Banana Fish, I would recommend Jason Thompson”s piece from Anime News Network (Jason Thompson’s House of 1000 Manga – Banana Fish, September 19, 2013). In the review, Thompson notes that “The mid-’80s in America was marked by highly publicized child abuse scandals and child disappearances, such as the case of Kevin Collins.
“In Banana Fish, the ultra-wealthy frequent a hidden sex club (“Young boys are the main dish. Child prostitution.”). Banana Fish has no onscreen sex, not even frontal nudity, but the intense dialogue makes the horror of the situation very clear: Ash’s life has been one of continual sexual violence. Yoshida depicts rape (always offscreen) entirely as trauma and never as titillation. In fact there aren’t any overt depictions of sex in this manga, and certainly not any positive ones”
[…]
“Perhaps Ash’s experience with sex is too negative, too tortured, for him to have a loving relationship; or perhaps, an equally valid decision, Yoshida just doesn’t want to risk eroticizing the manga’s heavy, bleak element of offscreen nonconsensual sex by adding an element of sex-as-love.”
Albione
August 11, 2018 at 5:20 pmThe episode had quite a few pacing problems and the father figure is badly drawn. But as for the rest I leave you with a few recent news items. Google Rochdale sex grooming or watch the BBC drama Three Girls if you want to see how victim blaming goes deep within the institutions, especially underpriveleged kids. Recently a preast was arrested in Italy abusing a nine year old girl; he said she had seduced him. I wonder how many parishoners agreed with him. Victims of abuse tend to fall into a spiral of continued abuse.
Guardian Enzo
August 11, 2018 at 6:41 pmYes, blaming the victim does happen in RL, way too often. But the circumstances as depicted by the writer (be it the original or the anime) as depicted are pretty far-fetched. The way the entire thing is presented in this series is the problem, more than any one clumsy element.
Aeryn
August 12, 2018 at 2:02 amSee this is why people and by people I mean your female readership which you seem to purposefully go and offend with every review, are upset with your coverage. Things might be exaggerated for artistic license but if you think they are too far-fetched just because the writing is clumsy then you have no idea what happens in real life and how predatory men target vulnerable minors, women and sexual minorities. Add to that the sexual worker component, and the representations in Banana Fish starts to look like child’s play compared to the reality some of us are living in.
I wish you’d take the time and educate yourself instead of doubling down on how extremists on both sides (meaning homophobes and women) are cramping your style.
Luna
August 11, 2018 at 11:09 pmHey Enzo, long time lurker here (probably since around 2011?). I’ve always wanted to comment but never had the nerve to speak up until now. It’s unfortunate you’re not enjoying Banana Fish as much as I hoped you would. I can see where your complaints lie and as a manga reader, I really wished this anime adaptation touched up the early parts of the story.
I think many of your criticisms is very much of the fault of shaky writing at the start of the series. Up to this episode, Banana Fish has been in its prologue, setting up characters and their backstories. Since Ash’s past is full of sexual abuse, Yoshida ended up hammering in rape a lot at the beginning to get that point across. And when the anime could have alleviated it, it chose not to, even adding more rape than what was there originally. During the prison portion, only Garvey had been after Ash in a sexual manner. But Garvey was not the one Dino had instructed to get information out of Ash so an unnamed character was beating Ash in the manga (without attempting to rape him). Long story short, the anime team re-arranged the situation slightly, presumably so that they can show Ash’s cruelty against people who hurt him. But for that to work, they made a non-sexual situation into an attempted rape scene. In the case of the anime, they should have cut out the part with Bull (which was Garvey in the manga), but I guess they couldn’t figure out how else to get Max and Ash to temporarily reconcile after their tense conversation from the previous episode if that scene didn’t exist.
In my opinion, this episode contains the worst content in Banana Fish. Not only does Ash’s dad’s motivations and actions not make much sense, Jennifer was killed pretty much for shock value, and much of what happens in this episode is inconsequential in the long run. Additionally, Ash really could have done without more rape in his backstory. Despite being a fan of the manga, I really wish that this content did not exist; it was mostly terrible writing all around.
But this episode is finally over and the story will pick up almost immediately. With the focus shifting to the plot, the need to dwell on Ash’s backstory lessens. Sexual assault and sex never really disappear from Banana Fish – Ash will have moments of weakness that call back to his past and he tends to use his sex appeal as a weapon to get what he wants, but these scenes are not the main focus like they have been. Other sinister and tense narratives will come to the forefront and create the crime drama that Banana Fish truly is. I can’t say that the next two or so episodes will be devoid of the elements you have criticized Banana Fish for, but it is the necessary transition and it will create a major shift in how many characters approach their situation.
And with that, I hope you do continue with this series. Its not perfect by any stretch of the imagination and this adaptation already has a major misstep in the modernization of the setting, but the manga also got a lot of things right (even if its portrayal is not always the best) and by the end, it is a work that has never left many, including me. There is something really powerful about it and I hope in due time, Banana Fish will show newcomers why it is still remembered and beloved over 30 years later.
Guardian Enzo
August 12, 2018 at 2:27 amThank you for speaking out, and I appreciate hearing your thoughts. To be honest I suspect I’m about done with this series in terms of covering it, which is kind of a shame on multiple levels. However much better than the anime the manga may be isn’t really the point – it’s the anime that’s currently airing. And it’s not nearly good enough to justify remaining immersed in the toxic environment that surrounds it.
Mike
August 12, 2018 at 3:34 amYeah I’m done with it. Was hopeful when I heard they got the Yuri on Ice director, but this is typical 80’s BL (I know people keep saying it’s shojo, but it’s chock full of old-school BL cliches). Don’t really get the defence of it like it’s some kind of sensitively-handled account of child abuse, when it’s all shock value and sensationalist pulp. And there’s the usual conflation of child abuse and homosexuality common in anime, which is just a really appalling message.
I think the Yuri association tricked me into thinking this might be an actual gay anime (but there’s already one, isn’t that enough), instead of the typical BL made for girls that bears no relationship to actual gay people, so I guess I was never gonna like it.
Guardian Enzo
August 12, 2018 at 3:40 amJust to be clear, the director here, Utsumi Hiroko, directed Free! (which would give me considerably less optimism) – not Yuri on Ice. It’s the same studio as YoI but as far I know, there are no crossovers among the key staff.
Luna
August 12, 2018 at 6:52 amI wouldn’t wholeheartedly say the manga is much better than the anime. The anime removes the racism that was present (as it should considering this day and age), but it also exacerbates problems the early portion of the manga had. Amazon’s mistranslated subtitles have a hand in this as well. All in all, I can’t say I’m happy with how the anime adaptation has gone thus far especially since Amazon’s part in this is a very unfortunate circumstance that not only has nothing to do with the original material but can only generate negativity toward the work.
I really hope you reconsider dropping coverage of the series. Next episode is when the content begins to change, though some cracks may continue to show for a little while. I understand not wanting to continue bathing in a toxic environment so maybe some restraint in hammering the same re-occurring issue will help (though to be honest, I don’t think the next episode will contain any content that you have criticized it for in the past)? Regardless, I hope to see more posts; I’ve always liked the insight you brought out in your reviews and in the case of Banana Fish, it is really hard to find thoughts that are not just homophobic remarks or blind praise.
Guardian Enzo
August 12, 2018 at 7:37 amAgain, appreciated. No promises but we’ll see what happens.
Kisachan94
August 21, 2018 at 4:42 pmLove this episode and this show it’ll just keep getting better ^^
Are you going to be posting anything with episode 7
Guardian Enzo
August 21, 2018 at 6:45 pmProbably not – still watching but pretty much decided to drop it for blogging purposes. Thanks for checking in though, appreciate it.
aay
June 24, 2019 at 7:57 amI am just curious, did you managed to watch the anime to the end, Enzo? I understand if you didn’t feel confortable covering it because of a toxic atmosphere though.
Being late to the party, I found myself in the need to comment anyway, so let me spend two words.
I marathoned the series in less than 24 hours just a few days ago. All I knew before doing so was that there were delicate themes and I needed to be in the right mood for this kind of journey. I am glad I waited. My heart was heavy most of the time. About the flaws you mentioned:
– yeah the scenes of rape are monotonous, every time it happens or Ash is reminded of the past the viewer is shown Ash’s distress and his overreaction when someone else touches him. But should we really ask for more variety? I mean for me the disconfort is barely bearable in this clichéd form…
– the update in the time-line in pretty pointless: the story feels like in the 80′ anyway but the incongruity doesn’t matter to me since the story is emotional in its core. I wouldn’t blame the animators though because it isn’t a remake, the manga had never received an anime adaptation. Couldn’t they modify the storytelling so that, for instance, Ash’s father won’t have looked like a piece of shit? Surely I elaborate my personal version of this arc and I think it would work better this way: in my mind his father went to the police, they questioned that man but then the man threatened Ash’s father that it would be easier with his testimony for the people to believe that Ash’s father was the abuser. And other explanations could be given about him not being able to send his son away on the spot. But in the end it’s not a remake, I would find it disrespectful to the source material, it’s flaws are a bit its distintive smell.
– does anyone want Ash? Well, yes, to an extent. It’s Marylin Monroe’s trope: blonde with an angel’s face, someone tamed by powerful politicians, a cursed beauty. Ash is the equivalent in a more perverse world.
– on a side note, I stopped the vision of Yuri on Ice because of two factors: I found the animation exagited and distracting and I was disgusted when Victor gave the theme of Eros to his protégé. I couldn’t help but thinking of a hawk and its prey, sexualization plain and simple at the very beginning from the “good” guy with the pretext of “art”. In BF they are always the bad guys to act in a disgusting way. At least BF deserves to be seen more than YoI in my book.